Just One Look Forum Archives

John and Carla, I know this is a link, but I think the article is so good and pertinent to the biological and psychological mechanisms of fear, I thought we could post it on the forums.

Jackx, the simple truth is that all ideas previous to Just One Look about the cause of, and the cure for, human biological and psychological mechanisms of fear are of little practical use in the light of the role of the birth trauma in sowing the seed of fear in the newly-minted mind.

The only fear that is relevant in the effort to effectively heal human mental suffering is the fear of life"” until it's gone. The psychological insights into the expressions of that fear are irrelevant because they are all ex post facto to the arising of the fear, and when the fear of life is gone, human fear assumes its rightful place in our life, which is that of alerting us to actually arising danger, and then disappears.

A mind free of the false fear of life itself will at some point be shorn of interest in the ins and outs of psychosomatic dramas arising from the false fear of life. I suspect that in time there will arise new psychological methods and understandings that are free from the need to seek understanding of the falsely fearful mind.

One more thing. Everybody would benefit from a fast from anything non-dual. Thirst for non-duality is a thirst for non-existence.

I've deleted the link, but approved the post, for the benefit of the others.

Another little tidbit John: Psychologically speaking, oftentimes, people who were abused as children many times just want to disappear. They just don't want to exist. I've run across these types of people in nondual seekers. Sometimes, I think I want to live long enough to figure out why you love life so much - because, intuitively, I feel there is something to that. I mean we were born into this life, shouldn't we be enjoying it? I would daresay that the majority of people love life when things are going their way and, at other times, not so much! But I know of - well for the sake of convenience let's say 'spiritual masters' - who have gone to torturous deaths laughing and singing. Or like buddhist monks who self-immolate themselves while remaining perfectly still and unperturbed. Not exactly the same thing as loving life if you're going to burn yourself to death though!;-) But I think you see what I'm driving at. I especially appreciate your story of the very intense viral food poisoning and it makes me think of these things. All the very best, Lex

Okay. I thought the biological research was interesting, not the non dual part. (Not sure there was a non-dual part). There was a mention of an area in the prefrontal cortex associated with present moment awareness that was suppressed by trauma.....as well as the language centers. I was curious if there could be research at some point pre and post looking where actual brain changes as a result of the looking could be documented. It would account for the reports of heightened present moment awareness, something I experience myself. I would think this type of neuroplasicity would take time......and would be rare in the adult brain.

On another note, while I respect your adamant disapproval of anything spiritual, I believe there is a mixed message of, on the one hand, a growing autonomy and self reliance post looking, and the need to be protected and sheltered from other 'spiritual' influences during the time of recovery. For me grappling with these beliefs in open discussions was an important way for me to understand how the looking is different from nondual and other religious traditions and to gain autonomy and self reliance in my own thinking. Just my two cents.

I think nobody wants to exist until the fear of life has dissipated in the unexpected way we see happening here.

Let me share a story. Not long ago I was intensely investigating Tibetan Buddhism and its ultimate goal. It was like an old hobby made a comeback in my life. I was telling myself that this time it wasn't because I needed saving, but rather for some arbitrary research purposes like to compare it with looking for instance and see similarities and differences, or to learn for myself whether what was promised by those teachings was actually attainable or not, 'cause you know, to be able to fly or pass through matter would be pretty rad after all. I thought I was on top of things, that I could be on the path and yet stay sane.

As I went on, with each passing confirmation that I was getting further or understood something new, I was getting more and more caught up in it. It took too long before I recognized how tired and miserable the whole project had made me. It was a slow and steady increase of investment during the better part of a full year. But then, suddenly and unexpectedly, it stood clear how all such efforts are fueled by nothing but a deeply rooted anxiety about being alive in the first place, and how my "research-logic" had been a justification for keeping up the fight towards a natural life, a strive to end my existence as it is. When it finally happened I was so relieved I actually laughed out loud! :D But I also felt like a jackass and completely empty inside (pun intended). Not for anybody else, but for myself, for falling for the fear once again, for feeding it attention for so long. This blaming and shaming however was remarkably short lived and nothing that a good night's sleep couldn't do away with, and the void left after quitting the path was filled without fuss by my own life.

So I second John's comment to try and divest oneself of any interest to elaborate on these matters. It was a very conflicting and confusing time to go through the above. As was it extremely exhausting and it didn't even bring anything worth keeping in the end. In fact I believe my recovery slowed down during that time, and it would have been much better to spend that energy just focusing on my daily life and working with attention like it's talked about here! So there it is, thanks for reading and hanging out.

Thank you for posting this Roed. Really wonderful description of how you got caught up in the fear and very inspiring to know how quickly it dissipated - as well as any 'guilty' feelings. I, too, currently agree with what John is saying where he talks about if you have any extra energy to do something, use it for the SDA practice.

"I think nobody wants to exist until the fear of life has dissipated in the unexpected way we see happening here." Yeah Roed, you could be right on the money with this statement man. Best, Lex

John wrote above:

A mind free of the false fear of life itself will at some point be shorn of interest in the ins and outs of psychosomatic dramas arising from the false fear of life. I suspect that in time there will arise new psychological methods and understandings that are free from the need to seek understanding of the falsely fearful mind.

To me, this is nothing short of revolutionary, since the entire world is caught up in the belief that past emotional, psychological, and physical traumas are the cause of all our current misery. I myself am caught up in it to a degree, but two things I've learned from JOL are gradually helping me overcome this. The first is that John points out that we are love...nothing but love (can't remember where I read this...might have been in his bookLook at Yourself) and the other was the realization I had from the childhood looking exercise. I saw that if the me that I am now is the same me I've always been - unmovable, permanent, unchangeable - and that if this me is love, then I have never been touched or hurt by anything that has gone on in the ever-changing human picture, and I am not touched by it now. This means that all the childhood experiences, whatever they were - neglect, trauma, abuse, indifference, lack of love and affection, etc. - have never had an effect on ME.

This is a an relevant discussion. What I take from this is that there is only one fear worth taking seriously; the fear of life, and then not even it after it's been done away with looking. And then there's the natural fear to protect us appropriately, but it takes care of itself.

I'm feel there is an important issue here about the pull of past systems and established avenues of inquiry, and danger of confusion. How skeptical should we be of them? Is there any wisdom there? Should we try to find out? And when, at what point in our recovery? Shall we know when? Or shall we lose the interest? Should we be very skeptical of all our interests? I feel John's warning here raises many questions, but I also feel he's right. I feel I can only take his word for it or don't, if I don't clearly see his point in any given arising pull of interest. Is there a way to discern a fear based interest? Or should we forget it all and just go with the SDA practice as roed_ and Ljazztrm seem to say...

roed_ I relate to what you say about your interest about what a sane mind can achieve and do. I feel that pull, too. Is it all corrupt? I don't believe of flying or such things, but maybe seeing how sane and effective and clear about practical day to day living can be, what sort of surprising solutions to questions and challenges turn up. What to eat? What's optimal diet? How to dress? Best way to exercise? How to find like-minded people to do things with? That kind of things. A kind hunger for excellence has awakened anew now that I feel I have the space and different kind of confidence. Makes me wonder what part might be of the fear based remnants (perfectionism)?

I can see how from this point of view it is quite irrelevant to look into fears and their correlates in the brain in order to find cure through understanding. Same goes with psychotherapy. I'm into science but sometimes I think this quest to solve the human condition through the brain is misleading, or misses something. Increasingly I tend to see the corruption of fear everywhere, even in the most rational of pursuits like science. From this I quite agree with John about the human predicament; it is a real possibility human race might not make it. Or the civilization as we know it.

From what I've read there is the perfect storm of worldwide economic low, climate change, the needed energy transition and the rise of the general political madness brewing to destroy our chances. If we don't collectively act on it all we will descent into hell. I think this is just realism. For instance, it's been speculated that the needed shift to renewable energy won't be able to sustain a society as complex as we live in now, so what would a transition (or a crash, in the worst case) really mean, globally? I don't dare imagine. It all rests on the bedrock of energy production. It's been theorized that Roman Empire collapsed into its own size and complexity, given the energy source they had; muscle power of beasts, slaves and citizens. Even with most of us free of fear and adequately through the recovery it would be challenging, on the practical level, even though renewable technology can probably maintain much more complex society than that of ancient Romans'. We need minds that don't get out of balance when facing bleak forecasts. Sane minds and fast, please.

But then there are so many things that might surprise us positively. I hope we have time. I don't quite see how this thing can spread fast. I don't feel optimistic about that but I hope this is one of the things that will surprise us. Maybe we need "tactical optimism" at this point as physicist David Bohm put it. Or, more likely, both optimism and pessimism are beside the point.

I know he says we are all love in his first book JR..and he says something like even that's not adequate to describe it. I had done exercises like the childhood memory thing in the past when studying nondual teachings. Yes, I agree with your description of it. As we've talked about in emails, since a small child I think I had this understanding that can be brought about by the childhood memory exercise, and never had a fear of death because of it. But it never changed the fact that I don't like suffering and I don't think that understanding mitigated the suffering at all either, except for that one issue of fear of death. It's funny because my mom usually says the same thing that you do about nothing can truly harm what we are..and, of course, I agree.. Oh, ok, now, just thinking about it I see another benefit - like, realizing this, we can see that any suffering we experience will eventually be over. Ok, now I get why this can be a good concept to remember. Thanks JR!;-)

Wow, Seppo - quite a post and a lot to think about. I'm not going to attempt to try and give my answer to all of it, but would like to address relevant parts from my viewpoint. I consider myself to be one who uses 'spiritual', 'metaphysical', whatever term you want to use.. Maybe the best is 'love' or 'unconditional love'.. to try to effect practical change in this life to make myself and others happy. That's all I really care about. It's why I've just been naturally interested in spiritual healing since a very small child. No one around me at that time had any interest in it. So, the way I personally would approach the questions I quoted you in is to see what works the best for me. What makes me feel the happiest and most peaceful? There are certainly other approaches to try to eliminate fear from our lives other than the SDA, but many of them are so complicated! And they haven't worked for me. Years ago, after I read 'Love Can Open Prison Doors' by Starr Daily, I was totally convinced love is the answer to every problem - unconditional love. Real love. It's how I was led to John's book in the first place. I believe I was researching terms like 'nonduality' and 'everything is love' and came across John's book on Amazon. Anyway - not to go too far off on a tangent here. How does the SDA practice make me feel? Does it work better for me than anything else I've tried? Of course, first I had to resonate with what John is saying about it. This is the premise I'm currently operating on now, and I think John is saying the same thing...at least I got this from his first book when he was talking about compassion:

My supposition is that, on one level, we, as humans, are naturally loving and compassionate beings and it's all the fear that is what blocks it and causes all the suffering people can experience. When we eliminate that fear, then won't we be naturally loving and compassionate. To take it to a 'higher' level - In John's first book he talks about how could he not be compassionate to 'someone else' because, really, he has come to see what he is, is all there is. So how can one, recognizing this on an experiential level, not be reaching out to try and mitigate 'others' suffering? Better put - How to help them mitigate their own suffering. I know I am kind of 'mixing levels' of speak here, but words fall short when talking about these concepts I find. I had an experience this morning - I was out and about and just seeing everyone with more love and feeling much more peace than usual. All I've been doing is the SDA practice and focusing on trying to love (like, sometimes, I'll just repeat 'unconditional love' to myself - and I think the SDA practice is even helping with that since it is developing my focused attention). Then, I went home and was 'hit' by something. It was very strange. I was home just doing some work and I sat to do another 10 min SDA practice and was 'hit' with some type of overwhelming sleepiness. I never experienced it like this before. And when I woke up, I just felt really bad..very unusual. What I think happened was that the effects of the SDA practice are starting to work in my life and some major resistance to that came from somewhere. I don't know where - maybe one of my friends with powerful mystical gifts will tell me at some point..as that tends to happen to me. Anyway, I took this as a good sign..when I felt better of course! Because my experience this morning, plus that type of resistance I never felt before makes me feel like something is really happening!

What if the fear being gone automatically leads you more towards the right choices for your own life? In my own experiences with healer types that emitted powerful love and no fear, they always seemed to be 'guided' to exactly what they needed to be doing with no real effort on their part. Just an intuitive knowing of what the best choices were to make for all concerned.

From what you've read, yes. But the media focuses on these things. I maintain that if we had the technology we have now hundreds or thousands of years ago, the forecast would be much more bleak. We, as human beings, are collectively raising in consciousness. Because of the technology we have today, the media makes it seem like this isn't so sometimes. And I'm not saying the media shouldn't report on these things, because, in this way, people who do have their consciousness 'more raised' can be made aware and help in whatever way possible. But look at what people did to each other hundreds and thousands of years ago. In Roman times, wasn't it a type of sport to watch people in an arena kill each other? What about the rampant slavery that existed all over the world? The Inquisition? The Holocaust? Mussolini? Communism? All the things that happened in China where millions of people were killed that many westerners don't even know about hundreds of years ago. Well, the list could go on and on. And it's not that all these things don't still happen today. I'm not saying that. But, they happen on a much smaller scale. And I believe that scale is getting smaller and smaller - of course, not nearly fast enough, imo! What about innocent civilians dying in war? (Of course, really, we're all 'innocent' but, for purposes of this discussion). Of course it happens every day still. But, because of the technology - more military targets are able to be centered in on.. think about how many more innocent civilians died in WWI and WWII..

Haha! You really got me going on this post Seppo, I didn't expect to be sitting here writing all this!

Why do you care? So what if we don't have time? And I direct this to John and anyone who has had insights similar to him. What is it with the love of this human life? Why do you love it so much? I mean, really, I want to know.. I love the fact you love life so much.. I think that's great! I mean, I intuitively feel like this is an outlook we should all embody because it just would make us so much happier and more peaceful. And to love everything that happens..unconditionally.. I certainly get it..intellectually.. It really feels like the way to go.

Seppo I love your phrase "tactical optimism"! I think that's what we need coming from a spiritual healing/metaphysical background. It really does seem that the universe supports our endeavors more when we have an optimistic viewpoint. I've seen it a number of times now in my life. People who really believe it will work out for the best in situation x, y, or z, really do seem to get the support from the universe/Life they need to have what they want happen. People who talk about how things won't work out for them in this way or that, usually manifest that result. And not that it's easy to have that outlook of 'tactical optimism - and I say I've seen it a number of times, because I've been involved in various healing type circles for years and met some extraordinary people in terms of, say, 'love consciousness'..it's still the minority that can do this.. and, now that I am thinking about it, these are the people with the least fear! Ok, 'tactical optimism'.. I'm stealing that one from you man!;-) Best, Lex

A kind hunger for excellence, that's a good way to put it. My story went sour because it became an obsession, and I feel it became obsession because I fueled it too much so I ended up relying on external confirmations. But it's still there, my strive for excellence, but really just in the background, like a gentle motivation to get things done, to get me interested in the going-ons. That's why I feel these little quests for improving our ways don't need our attention, to me it looks like that is default in a sane mind. I don't know if this makes any sense?

About spreading looking, firstly I agree that the challenge we, together in here face, is.. well. It's big. We might not make it. Let's not dwell on it and instead get going.

I still think the 30-second television advertisement is one of the most powerful means of relying a message to the public. I've been watching some TV lately, and I notice how it affects me. If John were to come on, introduce the looking ~ 10 seconds, then talk about recovery and the power of attention ~15 seconds, and conclude with the link and a request for financial donations. You know? Run that nation wide. Just saying. It's not impossible!

Your idea is our idea. All that's needed is the money to do it. Maybe you could do some research on the likely overall cost.

I know someone in TV, I'll see what I can find out!

Thank you. When we have numbers we can get serious about raising the funds. We are a registered nonprofit in the US, which opens opportunities to seek grants.

Lex, I have learned to be cautious of predicting outcomes of this work because it is virtually impossible to do that. Any wonderful experience that comes and goes is beside the point in this context. It may indicate that something is happening to you, but in my case none of those feelings, thoughts or experiences have shown me anything of value, rather they have just made me more miserable in the end. So if you avoid all that it may hasten your recovery and spare you trouble! Attention practice has two parts - one is cultivating a strong "muscle" of attention which gives you the power to discern for yourself where to direct it, and two is to actually apply that power, and consistently turn your attention away from anything that is not practical in the moment. So that includes the wonderful, the awful or the neutral states and experiences, thoughts and emotions, more or less everything, that comes and goes throughout recovery! So don't trust thoughts basically, focus on something else, and if there's nothing practical going on that could use your attention, focus on the breath. That's the second part and it's equally important in my experience.

A comment also on experimenting with self-directed attention. I did it and here's what I found. The breath really is the perfect sensation for strengthening your muscle of attention. Why that is, is because it is completely neutral, and it takes a determined effort to stay there. Your mind will try and make a mountain of a molehill, that's where my experimentation came from, because it seeks to improve and develop things, to get somewhere else, to "see things differently", or the like, but really you don't need to do that. What you are after is to take back the power by not listening to what your mind suggests to you and instead put it somewhere that you choose. And because it's boring, and sort of shuts up the mind, the breath becomes somewhat difficult to go to and stay with. Secondly, the breath is harmless, neutral and always there so it's really the optimal place. If anything, all it suggests to you is that you are still alive, and that can't hurt. Other targets may carry meanings and elaborations that might be detrimental towards our goal of self-reliance. And if you find counting the breath too easy then you can always just pay even closer attention. There's no graduation when you step up to something more advanced, or some other sensation.

Some thoughts relating to this post and what's current here generally. Hope it adds something to the discussion!

John, perhaps we should consider radio as well. Probably cheaper in both production and air time. I'm a big fan of radio

I went through similar analysis and evaluation of many past beliefs. I suppose it was draining and ultimately useless, but I also found things of value. I reached a similar conclusion, that I don't need the belief systems I previously thought I did, and also that I don't need any belief system. I think this kind of examination is useful in the process of what stays and what goes. This is a personal valuation and we are under consciousness construction and evolution. Therefore I think it is important to discuss this evolution with others if we wish.....as we find out what has quality and staying power. I suppose I will feel unfettered at some point, communing with the matter and stimulus around me in a fluid give and take, but until then I will have fun speculating, thinking, believing and disbelieving. When you know there is no harm in store, there is freedom to run and play among among the beliefs and constructs until they lose their juice.

Lex, I have learned to be cautious of predicting outcomes of this work because it is virtually impossible to do that. Any wonderful experience that comes and goes is beside the point in this context. It may indicate that something is happening to you, but in my case none of those feelings, thoughts or experiences have shown me anything of value, rather they have just made me more miserable in the end. So if you avoid all that it may hasten your recovery and spare you trouble! Attention practice has two parts - one is cultivating a strong "muscle" of attention which gives you the power to discern for yourself where to direct it, and two is to actually apply that power, and consistently turn your attention away from anything that is not practical in the moment. So that includes the wonderful, the awful or the neutral states and experiences, thoughts and emotions, more or less everything, that comes and goes throughout recovery! So don't trust thoughts basically, focus on something else, and if there's nothing practical going on that could use your attention, focus on the breath. That's the second part and it's equally important in my experience.

A comment also on experimenting with self-directed attention. I did it and here's what I found. The breath really is the perfect sensation for strengthening your muscle of attention. Why that is, is because it is completely neutral, and it takes a determined effort to stay there. Your mind will try and make a mountain of a molehill, that's where my experimentation came from, because it seeks to improve and develop things, to get somewhere else, to "see things differently", or the like, but really you don't need to do that. What you are after is to take back the power by not listening to what your mind suggests to you and instead put it somewhere that you choose. And because it's boring, and sort of shuts up the mind, the breath becomes somewhat difficult to go to and stay with. Secondly, the breath is harmless, neutral and always there so it's really the optimal place. If anything, all it suggests to you is that you are still alive, and that can't hurt. Other targets may carry meanings and elaborations that might be detrimental towards our goal of self-reliance. And if you find counting the breath too easy then you can always just pay even closer attention. There's no graduation when you step up to something more advanced, or some other sensation.

Some thoughts relating to this post and what's current here generally. Hope it adds something to the discussion!"

- Roed, just a short one for now since I am out on my BlackBerry, but I just wanted to say I definitely agree with what you're saying about not trusting the mind. It feels like my mind just wants to cause me to suffer!

but, with focused attention, isn't the idea to focus on the wonderful things? I would think the wonderful things would usually be practical in many moments. I plan on studying your comment again when I have more time. A lot of good stuff there. Thnx!

Yes, radio is great! We love radio. Let us know what you find out.

Actually Carla, that satellite radio seems to be very popular these days. And a lot of the tv sets nowadays are hooked into the satellite radio I notice. Podcasts are all the rage nowadays. Have you checked out Marc Maron's? http://www.wtfpod.com/ He even had the last president on. But he's a recovering addict and has had some deep talks about compassion and recovery and some spiritual stuff. I think he works the 12 steps.. I mean this guy is pretty much world famous now. He's got a real funny TV show too. Anyway, I don't know him personally but I dropped him an email about John and this site and told him to have John on for a podcast. I don't know if he checks all his emails since he probably gets a ton but what the hell? Figured I'd give it a shot. I can tell he's a sensitive cat and a seeker. All the very best, Lex

Lex, thank you for taking the time to comment on my post so thoroughly. I don't think of myself loving life or humanity. I'm probably the most depressed person you know. It's just that not caring is wrong, taking part in the destruction.

"Tactical optimism" comes from David Bohm, a brilliant thinker who had lots of talks with Krishnamurti.

Yes, but the right choices might come through just this newfound interest and a sort of enthusiasm after some of the effects of fear start to dissipate. There certainly is much less effort going on.

My media is recordings of philosophical, economical and physics talks, discussions, blogs and books. Not the mainstream media. It might be that we are raising consciousness, although I don't like that phrase (I'm a bit of a skeptic). But consciousness won't change the fact of EROEI of energy production, or what is already underway politically or economically.

Perhaps raised consciousness, or whatever term you prefer, maybe, functioning without needless fear, can reverse certain things already in motion. Who knows what new and helpful things we can come up with if we are functioning without the encumbrance of needless fear?

Thanks for the info Seppo

True, who knows what might happen. I imagine it would be a very different world.

Yeah Jackx, exactly - speculating, thinking, believing and disbelieving is all good fun when they don't take precedence over normal life. I couldn't manage to stay sane and follow this path at the same time. I got hooked on it, on the promises of an escape from myself, that I wasn't enough already, so I didn't concern myself with real life things as much during that time, and it was not clear to me that there is no harm in store. That's how I felt miserable. It may not be the case for everyone, but let me put it like this: The secret mind practices I was doing sort of came between me and my own life, feeding that which kept me from living my real, normal, human life as fully. I too think there are plenty of golden nuggets hidden in these traditions and practices, but that's a different story and another topic for discussion I think.

What if you choose a place, a city for example, and try to get 10% of the citizens of that particular place to do the looking. You could channel the resources and use the local pathways to get to the people which might be cheaper and you could really observe how things work out. Combined use of local TV stations, radio, newspapers, cinemas, facebook groups, email, SMS and maybe a couple of interviews would make it feasible to achieve that within a reasonable time frame. And I think if you run a campaign for a city, people donate more readily, because they know where money is going to. You can get radio spots 60sec for 15 USD in Lagos, Nigeria which is the biggest city in Africa (around 18 Mio. people). Newspaper ads 1/4 page is 450 USD (for the big newspapers as The Guardian Nigeria, The sun nigeria etc.) and TV ads are about 1000 USD for 30 sec as far as I could find out.

If these pathways are combined so that people just now about it after the campaign, things should take their own course in that place and keep growing by itself and you then get to the next city.

And you could also involve the members/visitors to get active by collecting phone numbers (for SMS), email addresses, make facebook postings and look for contacts to media facilities etc.

Just an idea...

Can I just say what a great comment Jaja! Thinking about it there should be plenty of densely populated places where advertising would be cheap and that is English speaking, would be very easy to reach with not a whole lot of dough, we could focus on them one by one as the funds are made available! - Let's just not forget there must be a structure ready to handle the traffic generated, maybe a new website altogether too since most people browse using phones these days.

I like the idea of cinema adverts. There you have people sitting in the dark fully focused on the huge screen. You can get almost every visitor to do the looking in that moment. Compared to listening to radio or watching TV that's a huge advantage. Because radio mostly just runs in the background while you are doing something else - like driving car or working - so I think it's definitely harder to get peoples attention. But I don't know how the costs are compared to radio.